Research Group for ME/CFS, Chronic Disease, Ageing and Cancer

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A few Q's
« on: June 28, 2021, 10:38:47 AM »
Hi Joshua/all

Thanks for putting this site together - I've spent the past couple of days working through the PR forum thread as well as the 3 papers and I am excited to try the protocol. 

A few Q's - apologies if these are covered elsewhere:

1) I've had my 1st Pfizer dose about 3 weeks ago and here in the UK the 2nd dose will follow 8 weeks after the first (so in just over a month most likely). Is there any general advice on whether the protocol can be followed at the same time as the vaccine is administered or should the supplements/protocol be paused around the vaccine? Would it be problematic to start for say, 2 weeks and then have to pause for a while if so or would I be better off waiting until after the 2nd dose?

2) Is there any benefit to a shorter fast before starting the protocol if the 3+ day fast can't be achieved?

3) This may be a stupid question - Oat bran is a key component of the protocol due to the high beta-glucans content. I am already eating a fair amount of oats each day, do something like these contain the bran within the oats or would I need to be additionally supplementing with oat bran? https://www.realfoodsource.com/product/gluten-free-jumbo-porridge-oats-2-5kg-community-pack/

4) I was wondering if perhaps there would be any benefit if enough members have gone through testing to have a thread where people share their Nutreval/Genova ION/OAT results to see if there are any commonalities and which can then be compared again if people retest after attempting the protocol?

Thanks in advance


Re: A few Q's
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2021, 09:15:59 PM »
Hi Joshua/all

Thanks for putting this site together - I've spent the past couple of days working through the PR forum thread as well as the 3 papers and I am excited to try the protocol.

A few Q's - apologies if these are covered elsewhere:

1) I've had my 1st Pfizer dose about 3 weeks ago and here in the UK the 2nd dose will follow 8 weeks after the first (so in just over a month most likely). Is there any general advice on whether the protocol can be followed at the same time as the vaccine is administered or should the supplements/protocol be paused around the vaccine? Would it be problematic to start for say, 2 weeks and then have to pause for a while if so or would I be better off waiting until after the 2nd dose?

2) Is there any benefit to a shorter fast before starting the protocol if the 3+ day fast can't be achieved?

3) This may be a stupid question - Oat bran is a key component of the protocol due to the high beta-glucans content. I am already eating a fair amount of oats each day, do something like these contain the bran within the oats or would I need to be additionally supplementing with oat bran? https://www.realfoodsource.com/product/gluten-free-jumbo-porridge-oats-2-5kg-community-pack/

4) I was wondering if perhaps there would be any benefit if enough members have gone through testing to have a thread where people share their Nutreval/Genova ION/OAT results to see if there are any commonalities and which can then be compared again if people retest after attempting the protocol?

Thanks in advance
Hi and welcome to the community!

I'll answer as best I can -

1) I've seen different people pause beta-glucans and/or reishi during the vaccination windows and others that have not. Symptomatically, there was nothing remarkably different between the groups, however I don't believe anyone has had followup markers for antibodies, so YMMV. The vaccine is new. The protocol is new. There are a lot of unknowns overall. Hypothetically, increasing your immune response while training your immune system with a vaccine may be helpful, however I can't answer the question or refer you to any literature, at this stage. 

2) Any fasting above 18 hours starts becoming useful. 36 hours is about where it all starts working. Time spent beyond that period is highly effective. I'd recommend checking out some of the fasting blogs, including Ian's, to get an idea of what you may experience. I personally had an enjoyable time, however I'm comparatively healthier than most. People who are chronically ill may have very different experiences while that are "doing the work". Nausea. Headaches. Liver pain. Inflammation. All of the things you can expect later, as reported by people on the protocol, as those tissues are remediated. The enhanced fasting process is significantly more rapid and may test your resolve / tolerance. The early data suggests it's a very worthwhile process.

3) Beta-glucans in oats is around 1-2%, vs 6-8% in most oat bran. Due to the overall calorie and carbohydrate "load", the bran is significantly more appropriate to your goals. The flavour is perhaps sweeter than oats, so people might mix a small amount of oats for texture, etc with a large amount of oat bran, for a larger intake of beta-glucans. We still have may questions around beta-glucans overall.

4) I love the idea of posting biodata and establishing trends, patterns. If the community supports the idea, I'd set up an area to store and analyse the data.

Cheers,

Joshua
NB. I am NOT a doctor and all information provided is for educational purposes only.

Please consult your physician before attempting anything you read here.


Re: A few Q's
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2021, 06:21:49 AM »
Thanks for the detailed response Joshua,

Appreciate the difficulties in answering Q 1), i'll think further on this but i'm tempted to start the protocol this week as I have oat bran, LEF Reishi and Lions Mane arriving tomorrow and I already have NEC, EGCG, Vit C and Glycine so enough to be making a start with.

To any other UK folks looking for LEF Reishi, it seems to be sold out in a lot of places but I founds some here with next day delivery and 10% off if you enter your email address https://www.indigo-herbs.co.uk/shop/buy/life-extension-reishi-extract-mushroom-complex-60-caps

If you set up an area for posting biodata I would happily get the ball rolling and send over my Genova ION and DUTCH test results - I am fairly sure there are multiple areas of these which are in line with your theory and that the protocol should address but I would love to have some more sets of eyes on it and make sure i've interpreted correctly.

Hopefully others are open to sharing their results as well.

Cheers!



Re: A few Q's
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2021, 09:56:51 AM »
Everything I have ordered has now arrived so i'll be starting the protocol tomorrow I've decided rather than waiting. I've tested a couple of small portions of oat bran along with one capsule of LEF Reishi and I seem to tolerate both well so it will be interesting to see how this changes once I ramp up to the recommended doses.

I had a few more question before I begin if that's ok:

I've attached a screengrab of a few areas of my ION panel that I thought were interesting and just wanted to check if they are in line with what you might expect to be improved from this protocol? I'm planning on restesting in a month or so.

The energy production markers seem mostly low including succinate, as do the glutathione markers + glycine which seems to make sense.

Phenylalanine and Tyrosine are both really low as well as VMA + HVA. I think this was mentioned in one of the 3 papers but I can't seem to find it again - was it that phenylalanine was wasted as part of the nitrogen disposal process?

If so:

1) Would supplemental phenylalanine + Tyrosine be useful to include on this protocol for me or should this resolve by itself by following the protocol?

2) My Glutamine is high in the Urea cycle section, does this fit?

3) Are BCAA's/EAA's to be avoided whilst on the protocol?

4) I have some Monolaurin and Cistus Incanus left over from a while back, would these potentially be useful to include or best to stick to the protocol as written?

I also have a DUTCH test where my DHEA was pretty low and DHEA-S was rock-bottom low which I think I have seen you mention fits with the theory of the protocol but I believe this may have been a comment on the PR thread and I can't seem to find it again - is this the case?

Apologies for bombarding with questions!

Many thanks


Re: A few Q's
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2021, 04:52:01 AM »
Everything I have ordered has now arrived so i'll be starting the protocol tomorrow I've decided rather than waiting. I've tested a couple of small portions of oat bran along with one capsule of LEF Reishi and I seem to tolerate both well so it will be interesting to see how this changes once I ramp up to the recommended doses.

I had a few more question before I begin if that's ok:

I've attached a screengrab of a few areas of my ION panel that I thought were interesting and just wanted to check if they are in line with what you might expect to be improved from this protocol? I'm planning on restesting in a month or so.

The energy production markers seem mostly low including succinate, as do the glutathione markers + glycine which seems to make sense.

Phenylalanine and Tyrosine are both really low as well as VMA + HVA. I think this was mentioned in one of the 3 papers but I can't seem to find it again - was it that phenylalanine was wasted as part of the nitrogen disposal process?

If so:

1) Would supplemental phenylalanine + Tyrosine be useful to include on this protocol for me or should this resolve by itself by following the protocol?

2) My Glutamine is high in the Urea cycle section, does this fit?

3) Are BCAA's/EAA's to be avoided whilst on the protocol?

4) I have some Monolaurin and Cistus Incanus left over from a while back, would these potentially be useful to include or best to stick to the protocol as written?

I also have a DUTCH test where my DHEA was pretty low and DHEA-S was rock-bottom low which I think I have seen you mention fits with the theory of the protocol but I believe this may have been a comment on the PR thread and I can't seem to find it again - is this the case?

Apologies for bombarding with questions!

Many thanks
Hi!

ION panel looks compatible... :D
To answer your questions -
1) These should be resolved by the protocol.
2) Yes, that also fits.
3) They're useful in the induction phase, where you're expecting a solid crash for about 4 days, also if you ever find you have unexpected PEM / dietary mishap / etc. Overall BCAAs are a double-edged sword - they can also be used to increase GDH.
4) I'd start without, however other people have used those and they seem to be useful.
DUTCH - yes, low DHEA is expected, also. 

Your HVA also doesn't hint that you have a co-infection with coxsackie, etc., so I think you may have some success here. Hope you do!

Cheers,
Joshua


Re: A few Q's
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2021, 06:18:51 AM »
Thank you!

Great to know i'm potentially a good candidate for this.

I started the protocol yesterday (albeit with slightly lower numbers in terms of supplementation to begin with but I will ramp this up).

So far I think the oat bran is creating a bit of GI distress in terms of gas and bloating so I will monitor this and see if it continues.

I plan on ramping up the numbers slowly so that by the beginning of next week I will be on the full dosages listed, hopefully I will have adjusted to the oat bran by that stage and can take the full dose.

Thanks again.


Re: A few Q's
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2021, 09:54:07 AM »
If you're looking for additional beta-glucan content but oat bran isn't agreeing with you, you could try using a beta-glucan supplement such as NOW food's. :)


Re: A few Q's
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2021, 08:32:42 AM »
Thanks Ian, yes I was thinking of looking for alternatives - I am going to try soaking the oat bran overnight and seeing if that helps but if not I wonder if a mixed mushroom supplement such as this might be useful? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mushroom-Complex-4-30-Beta-Glucan/dp/B0761QZ8LG?th=1


Re: A few Q's
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2021, 08:56:09 AM »
It certainly could help, but if trying to find good Reishi has been any indication, it may also be a gamble as to whether it'll actually do anything. :D


Re: A few Q's
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2021, 02:51:29 AM »
Yes good point!

I had bought various Reishi products before in the past as both powders and capsules but never the LEF Reishi before now.

I ordered 4 pots of LEF Reishi which arrived last week and could instantly tell that it is completely different as soon as I opened it - the fruity dark chocolatey smell was pretty obvious for one.

Wouldn't be surprised if there are similar quality differences in other mushroom products as you say.